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	<title>Comments on: The Seven Plots</title>
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	<link>http://www.godofthemachine.com/?p=487</link>
	<description>Culling my readers to a manageable elite since 2002.</description>
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		<title>By: David Q</title>
		<link>http://www.godofthemachine.com/?p=487&#038;cpage=1#comment-1654</link>
		<dc:creator>David Q</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=487#comment-1654</guid>
		<description>Northrop Frye already wrote &quot;The Seven Plots&quot; but he called it &quot;The Anatomy of Criticism&quot; and had only four basic plots: Comedy, Tragedy, Irony and (Chivalric) Romance. Actually, the section on plots took up only about a quarter of the book. Frye identified lots of variations within each of the four basic plots, but he was able to organize the variations. Read the book and you&#039;ll never think about plots the same way again.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Northrop Frye already wrote &quot;The Seven Plots&quot; but he called it &quot;The Anatomy of Criticism&quot; and had only four basic plots: Comedy, Tragedy, Irony and (Chivalric) Romance. Actually, the section on plots took up only about a quarter of the book. Frye identified lots of variations within each of the four basic plots, but he was able to organize the variations. Read the book and you&#8217;ll never think about plots the same way again.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Kaplan</title>
		<link>http://www.godofthemachine.com/?p=487&#038;cpage=1#comment-1653</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Kaplan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=487#comment-1653</guid>
		<description>Two of the most famous movies of all time, Casablanca and Gone with the Wind have the same plot: Boy finds girl; boy loses girl; boy gets girl back; boy dumps girl.  However, the themes, and presumably the coordinates of the character arcs, must be entirely different.  Motivation makes them differ, not plot line.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two of the most famous movies of all time, Casablanca and Gone with the Wind have the same plot: Boy finds girl; boy loses girl; boy gets girl back; boy dumps girl.  However, the themes, and presumably the coordinates of the character arcs, must be entirely different.  Motivation makes them differ, not plot line.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.godofthemachine.com/?p=487&#038;cpage=1#comment-1652</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=487#comment-1652</guid>
		<description>I posted a link in Friedrich&#039;s comments, but I&#039;ll put one here as well:  I &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.ianhamet.com/archive/2003/09/20030924a.html&quot;&gt;responded to what Friedrich said&lt;/a&gt;, noting that he was conflating two different aspects of story  structure and backstory.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As for how many plots there are, that depends on how broadly you define &quot;plot.&quot;  If you go really broad, there are only three:  man vs. man, man vs. nature, man vs. himself.  I tend to see plot as &lt;i&gt;slightly&lt;/i&gt; more detailed than that...
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted a link in Friedrich&#8217;s comments, but I&#8217;ll put one here as well:  I <a href=&quot;http://blog.ianhamet.com/archive/2003/09/20030924a.html&quot;>responded to what Friedrich said</a>, noting that he was conflating two different aspects of story  structure and backstory.</p>
<p>As for how many plots there are, that depends on how broadly you define &quot;plot.&quot;  If you go really broad, there are only three:  man vs. man, man vs. nature, man vs. himself.  I tend to see plot as <i>slightly</i> more detailed than that&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://www.godofthemachine.com/?p=487&#038;cpage=1#comment-1651</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=487#comment-1651</guid>
		<description>Well Aaron, I tried graphing Ignatius from &#039;Confederacy&#039; and it was going good. However, after he started looking like a Wyndham Lewis abstract, kinda like one of the &#039;Timon of Athens&#039; series, I had to give it up.&lt;br /&gt;
p.s. I&#039;m mailing in money....I can&#039;t stand the guilt of getting something as good as godofthemachine for free.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Aaron, I tried graphing Ignatius from &#8216;Confederacy&#8217; and it was going good. However, after he started looking like a Wyndham Lewis abstract, kinda like one of the &#8216;Timon of Athens&#8217; series, I had to give it up.<br />
p.s. I&#8217;m mailing in money&#8230;.I can&#8217;t stand the guilt of getting something as good as godofthemachine for free.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Haspel</title>
		<link>http://www.godofthemachine.com/?p=487&#038;cpage=1#comment-1650</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Haspel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=487#comment-1650</guid>
		<description>Lyn: I don&#039;t know the book, but I looked at the site, which is interesting. Thirty-six plots, though, are far too many. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Michael: That is a vulgar version of what Aristotle said in the &lt;i&gt;Poetics&lt;/i&gt;, which is that dramas require a beginning, middle, and end. He did not discuss &quot;acts&quot; and in fact Greek plays were not written in acts at all.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jim: Who knows? In the meantime I have to concern myself with mundane tasks like making a living.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Steve: I&#039;d like to help out here, but I&#039;ve never read &lt;i&gt;Confederacy of Dunces&lt;/i&gt;, though, or perhaps because, it has often been recommended to me, and I haven&#039;t looked at &lt;i&gt;The Good Soldier&lt;/i&gt; for nearly twenty years. You tell me.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lyn: I don&#8217;t know the book, but I looked at the site, which is interesting. Thirty-six plots, though, are far too many. </p>
<p>Michael: That is a vulgar version of what Aristotle said in the <i>Poetics</i>, which is that dramas require a beginning, middle, and end. He did not discuss &quot;acts&quot; and in fact Greek plays were not written in acts at all.</p>
<p>Jim: Who knows? In the meantime I have to concern myself with mundane tasks like making a living.</p>
<p>Steve: I&#8217;d like to help out here, but I&#8217;ve never read <i>Confederacy of Dunces</i>, though, or perhaps because, it has often been recommended to me, and I haven&#8217;t looked at <i>The Good Soldier</i> for nearly twenty years. You tell me.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyn</title>
		<link>http://www.godofthemachine.com/?p=487&#038;cpage=1#comment-1649</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=487#comment-1649</guid>
		<description>Funny you should ask...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There&#039;s a French book published in 1916 as &quot;The Thirty-Six Dramatic Situations&quot; by Georges Polti and described further here:&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.darkshire.org/~jhkim/rpg/theory/plot/the36plots.html
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny you should ask&#8230;</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a French book published in 1916 as &quot;The Thirty-Six Dramatic Situations&quot; by Georges Polti and described further here:<br />
<a href="http://www.darkshire.org/~jhkim/rpg/theory/plot/the36plots.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.darkshire.org/~jhkim/rpg/theory/plot/the36plots.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jim Valliant</title>
		<link>http://www.godofthemachine.com/?p=487&#038;cpage=1#comment-1648</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Valliant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:08:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=487#comment-1648</guid>
		<description>Of course, the book is the thing (if I can paraphrase Shakespeare); the review , however perfect, cannot suffice because an art work is an experience, and an argument is its guts, not its summary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But, I concede it may be profitable to provide a list the books that can or should be written.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By the way, Aaron, can we expect any such titles from the pen of Mr. Haspel...?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, the book is the thing (if I can paraphrase Shakespeare); the review , however perfect, cannot suffice because an art work is an experience, and an argument is its guts, not its summary.</p>
<p>But, I concede it may be profitable to provide a list the books that can or should be written.</p>
<p>By the way, Aaron, can we expect any such titles from the pen of Mr. Haspel&#8230;?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Krantz</title>
		<link>http://www.godofthemachine.com/?p=487&#038;cpage=1#comment-1647</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Krantz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=487#comment-1647</guid>
		<description>Friedrich&#039;s formulation is okay, but a bit idiosyncratic. The accepted constituent parts of story structure are as follows: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Act I: We meet the protagonist in his nature, primeval state; we learn who he is before the events of the story change him. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Plot Point I: Something happens which sets the main story in motion by giving the protagonist one primary goal (i.e., Meg Ryan hears Tom Hanks on the radio in Sleepless in Seattle and decides she must make him love her).  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Act II: The protagonist pursues his goal, facing and overcoming greater and greater obstacles along the way. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Plot Point II: The Act II climax, which resolves the great sweep of story that comprises Act II. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Act III: We see the impact of the protagonist&#039;s Act II adventure on his life, his character, the other people in his life, etc. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For the most part, at least in movies, Acts I and III are short --15 minutes or so. Act II is long: around an hour. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The mistake most critics of screenwriting theory, workshops, etc., make is in thinking that preaching this sort of structure makes movies simplistic, boring, predictable, etc. As Aaron points out, this is a red herring. When you get used to thinking in these terms, you realize that practically every movie, novel or play you can think of fits fairly neatly into this paradigm: the great work right along with the mediocre. My understanding, Aaron, albeit mostly from secondhand sources, is that 3-act structure derives ultimately from Aristotle. True?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Friedrich&#8217;s formulation is okay, but a bit idiosyncratic. The accepted constituent parts of story structure are as follows: </p>
<p>Act I: We meet the protagonist in his nature, primeval state; we learn who he is before the events of the story change him. </p>
<p>Plot Point I: Something happens which sets the main story in motion by giving the protagonist one primary goal (i.e., Meg Ryan hears Tom Hanks on the radio in Sleepless in Seattle and decides she must make him love her).  </p>
<p>Act II: The protagonist pursues his goal, facing and overcoming greater and greater obstacles along the way. </p>
<p>Plot Point II: The Act II climax, which resolves the great sweep of story that comprises Act II. </p>
<p>Act III: We see the impact of the protagonist&#8217;s Act II adventure on his life, his character, the other people in his life, etc. </p>
<p>For the most part, at least in movies, Acts I and III are short &#8211;15 minutes or so. Act II is long: around an hour. </p>
<p>The mistake most critics of screenwriting theory, workshops, etc., make is in thinking that preaching this sort of structure makes movies simplistic, boring, predictable, etc. As Aaron points out, this is a red herring. When you get used to thinking in these terms, you realize that practically every movie, novel or play you can think of fits fairly neatly into this paradigm: the great work right along with the mediocre. My understanding, Aaron, albeit mostly from secondhand sources, is that 3-act structure derives ultimately from Aristotle. True?</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://www.godofthemachine.com/?p=487&#038;cpage=1#comment-1646</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:34:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=487#comment-1646</guid>
		<description>Aaron, how would two of my favorites graph out...&#039;The Good Soldier&#039; by Ford Madox Ford and &#039;A Confederacy of Dunces&#039; By John Kennedy Toole&#039;?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaron, how would two of my favorites graph out&#8230;&#8217;The Good Soldier&#8217; by Ford Madox Ford and &#8216;A Confederacy of Dunces&#8217; By John Kennedy Toole&#8217;?</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Kaplan</title>
		<link>http://www.godofthemachine.com/?p=487&#038;cpage=1#comment-1645</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Kaplan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2003 01:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=487#comment-1645</guid>
		<description>In your Cartesian plot universe, Kleist&#039;s works would graph power laws, Sartre&#039;s and Mann&#039;s a flat line and  Kafka&#039;s discreet points that could not be connected continuously.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In your Cartesian plot universe, Kleist&#8217;s works would graph power laws, Sartre&#8217;s and Mann&#8217;s a flat line and  Kafka&#8217;s discreet points that could not be connected continuously.</p>
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